October 1, 2015 No.5
https://www.facebook.com/mehtarahulc/posts/10153064333431922
https://www.facebook.com/mehtarahulc/posts/10153064333431922
(1) Which damage is higher --- (a) damage due to undocumentable undocumented distributed discrimination against SC / ST / OBC via interview / discretion OR (b) damage due to documented centralized "discrimination" against General candidates via CBR = caste based reservation law.
.
(2) And a central "flaw" in argument of anti-reservation "activists" --- they insist on concluding that lack of "documentary proof of discrimination" as "lack of discrimination" !!!
.
====
.
I have proposed law-drafts that would reduce reservation with support of poor SC / ST / OBC ( seehttps://www.facebook.com/mehtarahulc/posts/10152992759916922 . ) . That apart, I support CBR = caste based reservation, And ,my rationale for supporting CBR is ----- (a) there is rampant nepotism and casteism in some 10000 apex officers , 700 senior judges, 100000 middle Tahsildaar level officers and 18000 judges. And so there is rampant discrimination against SC / ST / OBC etc. (b) and CBR is as of now only remedy to lessen the negative effects of this discrimination. (c) And so CBR should go on till other remedies are put that bring end to discrimination.
.
And anti-reservation "activists" , almost always, simply deny that there is any nepotism / casteism, and discrimination against SC / ST / OBC etc in administration / courts !!! IOW, as per them, there is NO discrimination against SC / ST / OBC. And hence as pert them so no need for CBR !!!
.
Each one is entitled to his beliefs. But what is interesting is that anti-reservation "activists" claim that "do you have DOCUMENTARY or other proofs to prove that 1000s apex officers / judges and 10000s of middle officers/ judges are nepotic / casteist? NO. Hence, there is NO such discrimination" !!!
.
This status post of mine is address this "flaw" in their argument. I am sure that anti-reservation activists on many issues do have beliefs NOT based on any proofs. Ans so it is unethical on their part to claim that "see , there is documentary evidence that there is no nepotism /. casteism , and so there is no discrimination on the basis of caste.
.
=====
.
Chapters
-----------
.
1. Documented vs undocumented / undocumentable wrongdoings
.
2. Example of undocumented / undocumentable wrongdoings -- corruption of CoBhAp-leaders ------ no proofs, doesnt prove that it doesnt exist
.
3. Reasons why Kings in 1880s and Congress leaders in 1940s / 1950s supported caste based reservation
.
4. Reasons why I support Caste Based Reservation TODAY, and reasons I consider useless.
.
5.The classical argument of anti-reservation "activists" --- do you have any "documentary" "proof" that there is nepotism / casteism in administration / courts in India? NO? Hence, there is no discrimination in Indian courts / administration.
.
6. The flaw in above argument.
.
=====
.
chap-1. Documented vs undocumented / undocumentable wrongdoings
.
One of the most important difference between Politics and Court case is --- how almost all activists and almost all voters, knowingly or unknowingly treat "KNOWN , OPENLY VISIBLE actions with ZERO documentary proofs".
.
I will explain via example and then use the concept wrt caste based reservation
.
=====
.
2. Example of undocumented / undocumentable wrongdoings -- corruption of CoBhAp-leaders ------ no documentary proofs, doesnt prove that it doesnt exist
.
Let me elaborate "no documentary proofs, doesnt prove that it doesnt exist" argument using example of "corruption of CoBhAp = Congress , BJP and AAP leaders" , and explain how almost every voter/activist treats Politics and Courts differently. And next, I will discuss caste based reservation.
.
Corruption in CoBhAp leaders is open, huge and visible. And so activists / voters make it an issue in politics. But all apex corrupt CoBhAp leaders are cunning enough not to leave any documentary evidences. And they mostly they get things done via laws and via juniors. So only juniors get implicated and apex CoBhAp-leaders laugh their way to bank. IOW, corruption of CoBhAp-apex-leaders is all open, but yet it is proofless.
.
So a nay-sayer has a chance to say "do you have ANY proof that CoBhAp leaders are corrupt ?" And then the nay sayer will add one more statement "see, you dont have any proof that CoBhAp leaders are corrupt". And he can further add " you are a liar and a time-waster and no action is needed on your cause because you dont have any evidences that CoBhAp-leaders are corrupt !!!" and so forth.
.
IOW, statement that "one has no proof about corruption of CoBhAp leaders and so no action should be taken against CoBhAp-leaders" is valid in court, and activists / voters give zero value in politics.
.
Many persons who voted against Congress / AAP and voted for BJP did so because they believed that Congress / AAP leaders are more corrupt than BJP leaders. And they had no evidences or proofs.
.
Many persons who voted against Congress / BJP and voted for AAP did so because they believed that Congress / BJP leaders are more corrupt than AAP leaders. And they had no evidences or proofs.
.
And many persons who voted against Congress / BJP and voted for AAP did so because they believed that Congress / BJP leaders are more corrupt than AAP leaders. And they had no evidences or proofs.
.
So my points are ---
.
1. Courts may need documentary etc proofs to take action.
.
2. But in politics, almost all citizens and all activists act based on their information, and WITHOUT ANY PROOFS. They may or may not have realized it -- but i is fact that "proofs" are neither asked , nor required.
.
=====
.
3. Reasons why Kings in 1880s and Congress leaders in 1940s / 1950s supported caste based reservation
.
The caste based reservation in India was implemented in 1880s and 1910s by INDIAN KINGS in their kingdoms !! The kings were all upper caste and were NOT dependent on vote banks etc. For them, their kingdoms were their private properties, and they believed that they would rule for 100s of years. Despite this, they decided to implement caset based reservation , going against so called "merits". Why did they take such decision?
.
The reason was --- the Kings believed that the apex staff which was overseeing the recruitment process, using interviews and written exams, was favoring their relatives and then caste members. And so a large number of educated SC / OBC etc were moving closer and closer to Muslim League and Missionaries.
.
And so many Indian Kings, even though they had NO documentary proof that apex staff was discriminating against OBC / SC etc, the Indian Kings went ahead and implemented reservation in 1880s to 1910s and even after.
.
The Congress leaders in 1930s supported caste based reservation for same reason. They had no documentary proofs that apex govt staff was discriminating agianst SC / OBC etc. They based on their observation believed that the apex staff does discriminate against OBC / SC etc. And this pushes educated SC / OBC etc towards Muslim League and Missionaries. And so the apex Congress leaders in 1930s were all in favor of reservation. Again, there was NO vote bank politics there. Back then , hardly 5% of Indian population above age of 21 years had voting rights. And most of them were upper caste only.
.
In later 1940s, leaders such as Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, Lal Bahadur Shashtri . and not to mention Jawahaherlal Ghazi, all supported caste based reservation. Again, there was no vote bank, as first elections were held in 1951. The reason they supported caste based reservation was because they believed that apex Govt staff does practice discrimination against SC / ST etc. None had any documentary proof that apex staff practices discrimination. But based on their observations and their beliefs , they supported CBR = Caste based reservation.
.
======
.
chapter-4. Reasons why I support Caste Based Reservation TODAY, and reasons I consider useless.
.
All that was past, Now lets see how CBR case applies today.
.
Now a question I put is as follows.
.
1) A big % of apex govt staff and judges are from upper caste, and that itself is NOT a fault of anyone alive today. In past they had better education, and I dont blame anyone alive today for that.
.
2) A large number of apex govt staff and judges do practice RAMPANT nepotism and RAMPANT casteism when it comes to selecting candidates, giving contracts, giving promotions and giving judgments.
.
3) The discrimination pushes ST / SC / OBC towards Missionaries etc
.
4) Reservation reduces the damage , and yes, reservation also causes some damage on other side
.
Above are the reasons why I support CBR
.
======
.
chapter-5. The classical argument of anti-reservation "activists" --- do you have any "documentary" "proof" that there is nepotism / casteism in administration / courts in India? NO? Hence, there is no discrimination in Indian courts / administration.
.
(2) And a central "flaw" in argument of anti-reservation "activists" --- they insist on concluding that lack of "documentary proof of discrimination" as "lack of discrimination" !!!
.
====
.
I have proposed law-drafts that would reduce reservation with support of poor SC / ST / OBC ( seehttps://www.facebook.com/mehtarahulc/posts/10152992759916922 . ) . That apart, I support CBR = caste based reservation, And ,my rationale for supporting CBR is ----- (a) there is rampant nepotism and casteism in some 10000 apex officers , 700 senior judges, 100000 middle Tahsildaar level officers and 18000 judges. And so there is rampant discrimination against SC / ST / OBC etc. (b) and CBR is as of now only remedy to lessen the negative effects of this discrimination. (c) And so CBR should go on till other remedies are put that bring end to discrimination.
.
And anti-reservation "activists" , almost always, simply deny that there is any nepotism / casteism, and discrimination against SC / ST / OBC etc in administration / courts !!! IOW, as per them, there is NO discrimination against SC / ST / OBC. And hence as pert them so no need for CBR !!!
.
Each one is entitled to his beliefs. But what is interesting is that anti-reservation "activists" claim that "do you have DOCUMENTARY or other proofs to prove that 1000s apex officers / judges and 10000s of middle officers/ judges are nepotic / casteist? NO. Hence, there is NO such discrimination" !!!
.
This status post of mine is address this "flaw" in their argument. I am sure that anti-reservation activists on many issues do have beliefs NOT based on any proofs. Ans so it is unethical on their part to claim that "see , there is documentary evidence that there is no nepotism /. casteism , and so there is no discrimination on the basis of caste.
.
=====
.
Chapters
-----------
.
1. Documented vs undocumented / undocumentable wrongdoings
.
2. Example of undocumented / undocumentable wrongdoings -- corruption of CoBhAp-leaders ------ no proofs, doesnt prove that it doesnt exist
.
3. Reasons why Kings in 1880s and Congress leaders in 1940s / 1950s supported caste based reservation
.
4. Reasons why I support Caste Based Reservation TODAY, and reasons I consider useless.
.
5.The classical argument of anti-reservation "activists" --- do you have any "documentary" "proof" that there is nepotism / casteism in administration / courts in India? NO? Hence, there is no discrimination in Indian courts / administration.
.
6. The flaw in above argument.
.
=====
.
chap-1. Documented vs undocumented / undocumentable wrongdoings
.
One of the most important difference between Politics and Court case is --- how almost all activists and almost all voters, knowingly or unknowingly treat "KNOWN , OPENLY VISIBLE actions with ZERO documentary proofs".
.
I will explain via example and then use the concept wrt caste based reservation
.
=====
.
2. Example of undocumented / undocumentable wrongdoings -- corruption of CoBhAp-leaders ------ no documentary proofs, doesnt prove that it doesnt exist
.
Let me elaborate "no documentary proofs, doesnt prove that it doesnt exist" argument using example of "corruption of CoBhAp = Congress , BJP and AAP leaders" , and explain how almost every voter/activist treats Politics and Courts differently. And next, I will discuss caste based reservation.
.
Corruption in CoBhAp leaders is open, huge and visible. And so activists / voters make it an issue in politics. But all apex corrupt CoBhAp leaders are cunning enough not to leave any documentary evidences. And they mostly they get things done via laws and via juniors. So only juniors get implicated and apex CoBhAp-leaders laugh their way to bank. IOW, corruption of CoBhAp-apex-leaders is all open, but yet it is proofless.
.
So a nay-sayer has a chance to say "do you have ANY proof that CoBhAp leaders are corrupt ?" And then the nay sayer will add one more statement "see, you dont have any proof that CoBhAp leaders are corrupt". And he can further add " you are a liar and a time-waster and no action is needed on your cause because you dont have any evidences that CoBhAp-leaders are corrupt !!!" and so forth.
.
IOW, statement that "one has no proof about corruption of CoBhAp leaders and so no action should be taken against CoBhAp-leaders" is valid in court, and activists / voters give zero value in politics.
.
Many persons who voted against Congress / AAP and voted for BJP did so because they believed that Congress / AAP leaders are more corrupt than BJP leaders. And they had no evidences or proofs.
.
Many persons who voted against Congress / BJP and voted for AAP did so because they believed that Congress / BJP leaders are more corrupt than AAP leaders. And they had no evidences or proofs.
.
And many persons who voted against Congress / BJP and voted for AAP did so because they believed that Congress / BJP leaders are more corrupt than AAP leaders. And they had no evidences or proofs.
.
So my points are ---
.
1. Courts may need documentary etc proofs to take action.
.
2. But in politics, almost all citizens and all activists act based on their information, and WITHOUT ANY PROOFS. They may or may not have realized it -- but i is fact that "proofs" are neither asked , nor required.
.
=====
.
3. Reasons why Kings in 1880s and Congress leaders in 1940s / 1950s supported caste based reservation
.
The caste based reservation in India was implemented in 1880s and 1910s by INDIAN KINGS in their kingdoms !! The kings were all upper caste and were NOT dependent on vote banks etc. For them, their kingdoms were their private properties, and they believed that they would rule for 100s of years. Despite this, they decided to implement caset based reservation , going against so called "merits". Why did they take such decision?
.
The reason was --- the Kings believed that the apex staff which was overseeing the recruitment process, using interviews and written exams, was favoring their relatives and then caste members. And so a large number of educated SC / OBC etc were moving closer and closer to Muslim League and Missionaries.
.
And so many Indian Kings, even though they had NO documentary proof that apex staff was discriminating against OBC / SC etc, the Indian Kings went ahead and implemented reservation in 1880s to 1910s and even after.
.
The Congress leaders in 1930s supported caste based reservation for same reason. They had no documentary proofs that apex govt staff was discriminating agianst SC / OBC etc. They based on their observation believed that the apex staff does discriminate against OBC / SC etc. And this pushes educated SC / OBC etc towards Muslim League and Missionaries. And so the apex Congress leaders in 1930s were all in favor of reservation. Again, there was NO vote bank politics there. Back then , hardly 5% of Indian population above age of 21 years had voting rights. And most of them were upper caste only.
.
In later 1940s, leaders such as Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, Lal Bahadur Shashtri . and not to mention Jawahaherlal Ghazi, all supported caste based reservation. Again, there was no vote bank, as first elections were held in 1951. The reason they supported caste based reservation was because they believed that apex Govt staff does practice discrimination against SC / ST etc. None had any documentary proof that apex staff practices discrimination. But based on their observations and their beliefs , they supported CBR = Caste based reservation.
.
======
.
chapter-4. Reasons why I support Caste Based Reservation TODAY, and reasons I consider useless.
.
All that was past, Now lets see how CBR case applies today.
.
Now a question I put is as follows.
.
1) A big % of apex govt staff and judges are from upper caste, and that itself is NOT a fault of anyone alive today. In past they had better education, and I dont blame anyone alive today for that.
.
2) A large number of apex govt staff and judges do practice RAMPANT nepotism and RAMPANT casteism when it comes to selecting candidates, giving contracts, giving promotions and giving judgments.
.
3) The discrimination pushes ST / SC / OBC towards Missionaries etc
.
4) Reservation reduces the damage , and yes, reservation also causes some damage on other side
.
Above are the reasons why I support CBR
.
======
.
chapter-5. The classical argument of anti-reservation "activists" --- do you have any "documentary" "proof" that there is nepotism / casteism in administration / courts in India? NO? Hence, there is no discrimination in Indian courts / administration.
Now please note --- that I , or no one , has any documentary evidence that that apex officers / judges practice nepotism / casteism etc. The nepotism etc is distributed over 1000s of officers / judges etc It is based n my observations, and please feel free to dismiss this as a white lie.
.
In fact, I come across many many murti-pujaks aka nyaya-murti-pujaks who say that not even 1% judges are nepotic / casteist !!! Each one is entitled to his own beliefs.
.
Now most anti-reservation "activists" also insist that there is zero caste based discrimination (except reservation) in apex administration and courts in India !!
Which is why none of them ever proposed any law-drafts to reduce caste based discrimination in hiring, promotion, contract giving and judgments. And they have a handy argument "pls provide PROOFS that 200,000 apex officers and some 18000 judges , and some 10000 tribunal judges practice nepotism / casteism. See you have no proofs. And since you have no proofs that 140000 apex officers / judges practice discrimination, , hence it is proves , that there is no discrimination against SC / ST / OBC in administration / courts. And hence , NO REMEDY is needed.".
.
=====
.
chap-6. The flaw in above argument given in chap-5
.
The flaw is that almost all activists and almost voters do use arguments like "party-X is more corrupt than party-Y" without any documentary evidences.And do make several preferences in politics based on their information, and NOT based in any documentary evidences.
.
IOW, there is no merit to argument that "since there is no documentary evidence of nepotism / casteism in apex administration / courts, we must presume that there is no discrimination at all". .
.
======
.
CONCLUSION :
.
One can also take a stand that "yes, there is discrimination against SC / ST / OBC in apex offices / courts , but yet there should be no CBR". IOW, discrmination in apex levels doesnt automatically prove the case for CBR. But anti-reservation activists seldom take that stand. The stand anti-reservation activists take is that "there is no proof that there is discrimination in apex admin / courts , and hence there is no discrimination and hence there is no case for CBR" !!! This argument of theirs, is flawed.
.
In fact, I come across many many murti-pujaks aka nyaya-murti-pujaks who say that not even 1% judges are nepotic / casteist !!! Each one is entitled to his own beliefs.
.
Now most anti-reservation "activists" also insist that there is zero caste based discrimination (except reservation) in apex administration and courts in India !!
Which is why none of them ever proposed any law-drafts to reduce caste based discrimination in hiring, promotion, contract giving and judgments. And they have a handy argument "pls provide PROOFS that 200,000 apex officers and some 18000 judges , and some 10000 tribunal judges practice nepotism / casteism. See you have no proofs. And since you have no proofs that 140000 apex officers / judges practice discrimination, , hence it is proves , that there is no discrimination against SC / ST / OBC in administration / courts. And hence , NO REMEDY is needed.".
.
=====
.
chap-6. The flaw in above argument given in chap-5
.
The flaw is that almost all activists and almost voters do use arguments like "party-X is more corrupt than party-Y" without any documentary evidences.And do make several preferences in politics based on their information, and NOT based in any documentary evidences.
.
IOW, there is no merit to argument that "since there is no documentary evidence of nepotism / casteism in apex administration / courts, we must presume that there is no discrimination at all". .
.
======
.
CONCLUSION :
.
One can also take a stand that "yes, there is discrimination against SC / ST / OBC in apex offices / courts , but yet there should be no CBR". IOW, discrmination in apex levels doesnt automatically prove the case for CBR. But anti-reservation activists seldom take that stand. The stand anti-reservation activists take is that "there is no proof that there is discrimination in apex admin / courts , and hence there is no discrimination and hence there is no case for CBR" !!! This argument of theirs, is flawed.
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